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The power of ID(and weakness of ART) and getting the word out there

Exit forum ID Forum Discussion The power of ID(and weakness of ART) and getting the word out there

This topic contains 9 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by   Brandon Cohen DC, CSCS September 3, 2016 at 9:35 am.

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  • #3519

    Anonymous

      I was just sharing this story on a trip to boston last week with Dr. Brady and he said it would be a good one to put on the forum.

      About a month ago my office got a call from a number with an area code in colorado springs, we usually dont answer these calls as its usually ART headquarters calling with some nonsense about signing back up for the seminars( which I havent done in over 2 years.)

      My office manager took the call and I overheard it.

      It was a guy calling about a back and disc problem that he has been dealing with for a few years now and it was starting to get so bad he was missing work. Needless to say he found me on the web through an article I wrote on disc injuries and the importance of treating the adhesion. He requested to speak with me and I was happy to talk.

      Over the course of our talk it began to amaze me how he had picked up on the subpar aspects that is ART. He even noted that he lives very close to ART headquarters and remarked that they really didnt seem like a good option. Are you kidding me?!? You live in Leahy’s back yard and can even smell their bullshit from a mile away!

      After about a ten minute talk this guy was convinced that his only chance was to see an ID trained doctor and let me know he would be flying to see me in Florida…

      This was one of those moments where you said “wow” this guy is willing to come all the way here and I havent even been doing ID that long, going on 2.5 years.

      Luckily he wasnt that far from Scott King in Denver and I referred him into their office and saved the guy a trip, and honestly if he was willing to fly to me I was going to just tell him to go to boston instead!

      Theme and lessons from this story for me go for 3 things:

      1. ID is hands down the best system out there, if you arent all in then you are just wasting your patients and your own time.

      2. Keep writing articles and getting the word out there, it cant all come from Dr. Brady and it will continue to grow this to get to everyone.

      3. ART is garbage and always has been, if you are wasting your time and money to just be listed as a provider then stop doing it, it will just dilute the value of ID and put you into a category of being “just another ART doc”, be your own brand and the best ID doctor you can be!

      #3521

      Carl Nottoli, DC
      Participant

        Thanks for sharing this Matt!

        I’m glad you haven’t bothered renewing your ART cert just to be listed as a provider. It’s a huge waste of time and money. Your points of getting better with ID and working toward being an expert are spot on. Patients get the idea once they’ve seen an ID provider and notice the obvious improvements! Get better with the fundamentals and learn how to communicate. It helps us all on the business side and improves every patient outcome across the U.S.

        #3523

        Paul Nottoli

          Awesome story, thanks for sharing.

          #3525

          Christopher Stepien
          Participant

            Love this convo. Great lessons + experience to you Matt.

            I wanted to add one thing. I don’t think it’s fair to say “ART is garbage”. As far as I know, Dr. Brady was started on the path of treating adhesion by ART + Dr. Leahy. If that assumption is true, then it’s important to give credit where credit is due. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from ID + Dr. Brady, it’s that “humility” is required to get better at this.

            When someone calls our office from another state and there is no ID provider near them, I always send them to the ART website as a second choice (if they don’t have the time/resources to get to the closest ID provider). It’s not good enough to say “Tough luck. If you can’t find an ID doc, don’t bother doing a thing. That’s not fair to the patient.”

            Fully respect the dialogue + the lessons. But I believe that in order to spread this message most effectively, we have to be composed enough to own our place + grow organically while respecting the fact that someone might be able to deliver value/results better at some point in the past, present, or future.

            #3527

            Eric Lambert, DC
            Participant

              Thanks for sharing Matt! Great story!

              I agree, we need to continue to promote ID to the masses. ID could almost be another degree in itself and is tons better than ART ever was.

              However, I too have to agree with Chris. I can’t say that ART is garbage. Starting with ART 19 years ago myself, it was the “gold standard” in soft tissue for a while. ART was a great starting point for many of us, when nothing else was out there to help soft tissue injuries. However, ART did not keep up with the times and in my opinion its become a lot worse over the last few years. The first providers of ART, who I learned from, were very good and it was a great starting point for providers to learn more about soft tissue injuries and how to treat them. That being said, I too am not renewing my ART certification after 19 years.

              Dr. Brady has done an awesome job with ID and continues to improve all of the ID system. I think anyone taking time to invest and look into ID will see the difference and I personally plan to continue to perfect what works, unless someone can show me something that works better for my patients. We just need to help Dr. Brady get the word out more about how great this system is, because there is no shortage in people who need good ID providers.

              #3529

              Anonymous

                Chris and Eric thanks for responding back and totally appreciate your feedback on the topic.

                I am going to double down on what I said about ART and I find in the musculoskeletal world we “give in” too much to other practitioners and end up trying to play devil’s advocate by saying it is still a good system and will help people.

                In my honest opinion we aren”t doing those people any favors by recommending another ART doctor as in my mind it is something that is vastly inferior to what is ART.

                Chris I understand where you are coming from and know you personally as a caring and compassionate person, which is a main reason I like and respect you so much. In saying that, we NEED to be the louder voice in the marketplace and let people know how much BETTER ID is compared to ART and we can do that with the utmost confidence because of the results we see everyday in our offices.

                So yes, thank you to ART for starting something and lighting a fire under Dr. Brady’s butt to realize that it isnt a good system and needed vast overhaul, and luckily for all of us it became inferior. Imagine what all of our practice worlds would of been if Dr. Brady didnt figure all of this out?!

                Its the same thing that happens in the business world, ART sets themselves as the “gold standard” and gets too big for its britches, leading to an inferior product and the people that suffer the most are the patients.

                In closing, I dont do what you do Chris by sending them to an ART doc if someone isn’t in their area and yes it does suck for them, but I wouldn’t waste a cent on an inferior treatment, but maybe I am a bit biased.

                How powerful is ID to me…. Last week I went to Boston for small group training and flew up a day earlier to get some expert treatment for Dr. Brady. It was the cheapest in the world at 400 bucks, but I can damn well tell you that it was worth every single cent and all the travel associated with it. If I am willing to go to that length to get my own issues treated how could I in good conscience recommend inferior doctor to someone else?

                I want the take home from all of this is for guys in the system that are hanging out in the so called “valley of death” to get out of it and come on the side of clinical excellence and use that money you are wasting on ART certifications and put it back into ID so the investment can compound 10 times!

                Keep up the good work guys and sorry for the long response!

                #3531

                Christopher Stepien
                Participant

                  I respect that Matt. All good dude.

                  There are elephants + donkeys for a reason.

                  #3533

                  Eric Lambert, DC
                  Participant

                    I need Dr. Brady to add a “Like” button to this forum.

                    Love the honesty Matt!

                    I respect all you guys! I have to add, it’s become really hard for me to send anyone to any provider who’s not in ID. I know what I’m going to get when I send someone to another ID provider. This has been demonstrated to me a few times already when I’ve treated patients from other ID docs who come to this area and when I’ve had to refer someone to another I doc. We all find the same things and treat the same way using the ID system. This was NEVER the case any other time with ART or Chiro docs. Using another ID trained provider, I know my patient will get the same care as I provide with ID and it will be the best possible care I can send them too for conservative treatment.

                    I wouldn’t hesitate to refer to any of you or any other ID certified provider.

                    Keep up the great work guys!

                    #3535

                    Carl Nottoli, DC
                    Participant

                      Another point to reiterate the importance of Matt’s post. Listen to the recent coaching archive with the knee pain patient. This is a guy that’s already had two surgeries (one not likely necessary) and probably thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on conservative care to still be getting worse. This includes traditional chiro, PT, ART, and whatever other technique system. The ID provider that is now treating him will do two important things:

                      1) actually fix any relevant problems

                      2) give this guy a complete and accurate diagnosis, along with the correct guidance and expectations in literally a fraction of the time. Knowing that a patient is not a candidate for care is more important than wasting this guys time and money.

                      ID is objective and honest. No matter how you want to justify sending a patient to someone else that’s not an ID provider it better be worth more than doing nothing at all. The most expensive option is the one that doesn’t work.

                      #3537

                      Brandon Cohen DC, CSCS
                      Participant

                        Okay, my turn (here goes Cohen again…)

                        Read the whole story, or skip to the ******* break for current status, or skip to the Closing Points

                        I, for one, will be forever grateful for ART. It changed an entirely and hugely frustrating process as a chiro student, to a mostly frustrating process. When I started ART over 10 years ago, it was the best out there, and the instruction at seminars was very good. I went to those seminars, and they blew my mind. There was incredible consistency between instructors. It changed my perspective on what a chiropractor could be. It was truly a game changer for me. Through those first couple of years, I gained direction for my practice and formed what I wanted in practice in under 2 years. Because of ART, I was able to work with the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Pittsburgh Penguins. It allowed me to have all the practice I thought I wanted in Pittsburgh.

                        I then took Long Nerve for the first time about 8 years ago. It was incredibly complicated, and the instructor admitted that despite teaching the course, he utilized only a couple of the protocols. This was the first time I felt like I didn’t get any value from the seminar. I put another notch on my website, but decided I wouldn’t do that course again. I went back to a regular seminar the next year. It was in Las Vegas with some 1000 of my closest friends. They had discontinued to practice of having recerts work in their own group and found a lot of people just kind of standing around. Instruction deteriorated, and there was a lack of consistency between instructors. I felt like I had a better grasp on the content than some of the assistant instructors. I thought that was weird. I decided that I only wanted to be taught by the master himself, so I switched to only doing Masters courses taught by Leahy. He was good, but most of the attendees were there for the 1/2 day recert and not interested in improving their skills. This was still worth it because Leahy was still demanding a level of proficiency which was nice.

                        Then, Master’s courses all but disappeared, but there was good news. Now I could recert online which meant I had to spend an afternoon in my office doing other stuff while Leahy talked in the background. I could get my recert in for a cool $495 in my office all without having to learn anything! I then took a long nerve course (I know…after I wrote it off) with a gross anatomy lab section. This was awesome! I mean, the being in the anatomy lab part. After 8 years or so of not being in an anatomy lab, it was great to see real tissue again. In this course, I noticed a discrepancy from previous instruction. They were teaching treatments of the sciatic nerve at the hip rotators by extending the hip, knee, and dorsiflexing the ankle. I pressed them on this issue, because it violated a primary principle of the course requiring slacking and tensioning of the nerve. I finally got the instructor to think about it, and he remembered teaching it with hip flexion before and that it made more sense. He then remembered that they changed the hip movement because it was less likely to people to get injured or made worse from tensioning the nerve. (um…what?!) So to recap, the people being taught were not skilled enough to feel where the tension of the sciatic nerve was with hip flexion, so they changed it to not be able to generate tension. Less effective? Sure. Safer? Also.

                        At this point I was very far halfway into ID, still doing 1 seminar a year. I continued to receive referrals from the ol’ ART website and due to their efforts I continued to recert. I could online every other year which was “great” for throwing away money and adding a little for marketing by keeping things “current.” I realized that the information gained from ART was lacking, so I put both feet into the ID pool, and increased my seminars to 2 a year. Then 4. Then I witnessed Carl’s incredible improvement over 2 years, and realized Matt did the same by attending every seminar he could. I heard a podcast by one of the ART instructors who is very good and a friend of mine talking about when he first found it, he went to every seminar he could. Also, Ido Portal mentioned how important it was to seek out good teachers. I was like, screw it, I’m doing as much ID as I can figure out. This was last year. I did what I could last year, and started coaching in January. Its like how I felt with ART in the beginning, but its getting better due to the standard that we are held.

                        ***************************************************************

                        Now, I still get referrals from ART, so I went to an upper extremity recert this summer to keep myself “current” for the website. Instruction was horrible. Super inconsistent. Most of the recerts were mentally checked out, had terrible touch, and not interested in being there. There were a lot of people who were there for advertising. They have had people ask about it, and wanted to say they did it. There were a bunch of students who had been told to take it, so they had things to do for soft tissue injuries. Most disturbing was the fact that even the lead group instructors either didn’t care enough or were just bad. I think it was a little of both. For example, we were taught on how to treat subscapularis by looking at the armpit and placing your thumb on the lat, and there you go. 90 percent of people were very good at treating the lat. Subscap was not even touched. They also do no teaching on how to find any of the structures. I was able to find 1 or 2 people each day who wanted to learn things and help them find structures. I shouldn’t have been surprised at how difficult people found it to find infraspinatus because they were just guessing. No finding the spine of the scapula, nothing. I worked with a couple of recerts who had been doing it for multiple years. I wouldn’t want to be treated by them if I had a problem. The end of each day was filled with me answering questions from people who were also disappointed with the level of instruction and frustrated with how they would ever implement it into practice. I told them all about ID and how it had surpassed ART, but many were apathetic. This was before the price change on the website, which has dramatically lowered the barrier of entry for people to “check it out.”

                        Also, there was a recert guy with a disc injury I diagnosed in 12 seconds who was complaining that it wasn’t getting better despite weekly treatments to his QL and hip rotators, stim, spinal decompression, and aggressive stretching of the hip rotators. He was treated by a lead instructor and felt “better” for 20 minutes. We discussed load management, and maybe not irritating the hell out of it every 30 minutes, but he really wanted ART to work.

                        Closing points

                        ART changed my practice, and was the “gold standard” (since changed to “first choice” which seems more accurate, not best choice, but a starting place for many). I learned many things from them. On occasion (twice a month maybe?) I use protocols from the old times, which is nice to have in the tool box. Expensive, but nice.

                        Instruction has deteriorated for many reasons. Expansion, egos, control, etc.

                        Would I recommend ART to any provider looking to improve their practice? Absolutely not. Not worth it at all.

                        I recently had a patient who moved to Seattle. I could not find an ID person up there. We had a conversation that ended with this, “I cannot find someone to recommend for you in your new area. I used to do a lot of ART, and believe that there may be someone really good up there. You probably won’t, but there have to be some good ones out there.” We reviewed her diagnosis, and told her to keep looking until she found someone who could confirm that. I gave her options, but not much hope in finding help. Its our responsibility to tell people the truth. Matt is very good at being direct, I tried to soften that same point.

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